AP/HUMA 2815 9.00 Islamic Traditions: A Genuine Portrayal of Islam?
Author: Imran Hasan
This was written last year and bulked together from a series of posts on facebook. Please overlook the rough edges of the article!
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It has come to many people’s attention that many claims have been attributed to Islam in this course from the course kits, textbook and the professors, 2 of them being non-Muslim, that are baseless and facts have been twisted to try explain Islam and its origins and practices. As Muslims have begun emigrating to the West, departments previously specializing in Orientalist studies, needed to revamp their approach into teaching about religion and Islam since Muslims started attending their institutions. The West has historically been hostile to Islam and Muslims since the 12th century. Many European scholars had acquired sufficient knowledge of Islam to understand its principal features (Macfie 42). However, due to the assumption that Christianity was the one and only true faith, “…prejudice and distortion displayed by Christian scholars and polemicists created an accepted cannon, a constituted body of belief about Islam, which identified a ‘real truth’, which portrayed Muhammad as an imposter, who only sought to justify his claim to Prophet-hood for the pursuit of power, wealth, and sexual satisfaction. It was also believed that Muslims promoted homosexuality, adultery and prostitution (Macfie 42). A’uzubillah min Zalik (I seek refuge in Allah from that!).
Many so-called “Islamic Courses” in present day universities such as York (Islam and Women, Islamic civilization, Islamic Traditions, Islamic Mysticism) are a loose extension of this bias approach where the secular, and liberal values are imposed upon their study of Islam. No longer will today’s more people savvy professors of religion outwardly make blatant statement about what Muslims believe according to their secular and liberal paradigm, rather the approach is much more subtle. This approach is placing seeds of doubt into the minds of Muslims and allowing it to slowly spread like a cancer.
One such example in HUMA 2815: Islamic Traditions which has the underlying baseless and unproven assumption that Islam as a religion that we have and hold on to today is a culmination of legends, fable, fabrications and practices that Islam adopted from their surroundings as time passed. Some statements made by Selma Zecevic and Marta Simidchieva when I was taking the course are the following which by the way they justify by referring to “Scholars”, whose names and references they never attempt to mention:
•The circumambulation (circling) during Hajj was adopted from pagan sun cults thus the black stone further confirms the connection between people who worshipped the sun. Islam came and inherited this practice
•The 7 heavens mentioned in the Quran came from the ancient Babylonian belief in 7 heavens
•The Prophet (sualAllahu alayhi wasalam) borrowed fasting and Friday prayers from the Jews
•Circumcision and hijab came from foreign practices.
Other baseless accusations they have made is :
•Hadith is wholly unreliable
•The authenticity of the Quranic Text is doubtful
•The Satanic verses : Muhammad (sualAllahu alayhi wasalam) recited a verse that told the Quraysh to worship the daughters of Allah to gain converts to Islam and then changed his mind (Salman Rushdie has written a book with this title)
•Putting doubt into the character and integrity of the Prophet when he had the capital punishment applied to the tribe of Bani Qurayza for treason.
However, we ourselves should know the answers to these questions and not sit idly by if we claim to believe in Allah and the Last Day. If we are not able to answer these questions then what are we doing to find out the knowledge for ourselves? Better question is why are we Muslim to begin with?
Here are some of the claims that were made in the class when I was enrolled in it last year:
Claim: Islam can be approached normatively or non-normatively. The non-normative approach to studying Islam is more objective.
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In the very first lectures and tutorials, the course instructors emphasized the importance of approaching the study of religion using the normative and non-normative approaches. Some exercises for identifying whether a statement was normative or non-normative were done repeatedly in order to internalize and accept these definitions when discussing Islam in this class. A statement such as “Prophet Muhammad is the Messenger of God” is a normative statement whereas “Muslim believe that the Prophet Muhammad is a Messenger from God” is non-normative statement. These concepts have deep philosophical roots that can be traced back to the likes of sociologist Max Weber. These concepts have to be examined before one can use these perspectives or adopt them as a valid way of looking at things.
Normative theory is a sociological term that describes, “a norm or standard of behavior that ‘ought to be followed’ as opposed to one that actually is followed.” When applied to Islam, it is a religious structure which “acts to encourage or enforce rules that ought to be followed according to the norms of that Muslim society, while it discourages or prevents social activity that ought not to be followed.” The reason why the normative approach judges Islam in terms of what ought to occur and ought not to occur is because of the belief that any statement about what is right and wrong, desirable or undesirable, just or unjust in society cannot be objectively shown to be true or false. Thus the sociologist views religion and religious rules as social norms that society enforces and these norms are required for the society to function harmoniously.
The other way of approaching Islam is non-normatively or what is called the value-free approach. The researcher’s aim is to exclude their own values and opinions when conducting research on Islam. So the sociologist will claim that the aim of a value-free approach allows the researcher to make observations and interpretations about Islam and Muslim society in a way that is as unbiased as possible. The non-normative approach “aims to establish facts and is not concerned with settling questions of values.” (http://www.answers.com/topic/value-free-approach). “Value-neutrality enables social scientists to fulfill the basic value of scientific inquiry that is search for true knowledge. Thus sociology being a science cherishes the goal of value neutrality.” Muslims have to examine the validity of the non-normative approach which concludes that conflicts over values cannot be settled factually.
The professor’s first claim is that there are only two valid ways of approaching Islam. A “believer” (as she puts it) or Islamic scholar approaches it normatively whereas the professor of humanities or sociologist approaches religion non-normatively. The reason why approaching the study of Islam is limited to these two perspectives is because of the assumption that Islam’s moral judgments cannot be objectively shown to be true or false, since value-judgments are subjective preferences. For example, A Muslim makes a moral judgment that drinking Alcohol is bad because Allah’tala says:
“O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansaab, and Al-Azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful” [al-Maa’idah 5:90]
However, the normative approach views the Muslim who says that Alcoholic drinks are bad is simply making subjective value judgments on what “ought to be” discouraged or considered ‘evil’ according to the norms of the people in that society. This claim is totally false. Allah’tala says:
002.147 The Truth is from thy Lord; so be not at all in doubt
This verse points out an important concept that all human beings can realize, which is that, the existence of truth and falsehood is absolute and is not relative contrary to which the sociologists claim. Inshallah will examine whether any of the 2 approaches are valid at all.
Whenever an idea or theory is presented to the Muslim, his/her obligation is to refer the matter back to the Creator for judgment. For any thought to be a valid thought, the reality also must be able to confirm the validity of that idea or thought. The use of the normative/ non-normative paradigm is a thought/theory that seeks to explain or evaluate a certain reality as well. In our case, the question should be raised is, “What is the valid approach for studying the Islamic culture, thoughts, practices and rituals?” To accurately assess the approach used in HUMA 2815, it is important always to trace back the thought to its founder. The normative/ non-normative approaches were mostly formulated and influenced by Max Weber, a German social theorist, who lived around the early 19th century. Max Weber contends in Science as a Vocation, that,
…theologians regularly proceed from the further presupposition that certain ‘revelations’ are facts relevant for salvation and as such make possible a meaningful conduct of life. Hence, these revelations must be believed in. Moreover, theologies presuppose that certain subjective states and acts possess the quality of holiness, that is, they constitute a way of life, or at least elements of one, that is religiously meaningful.
Thus, the assumption is that revelations are “presuppositions” with no proof to validate its truthfulness and that rituals and religious acts are subjective that just “must be believed in…” The implicit suggestion is the claim that no religion or ‘way of life’ can take the absolute position of making the pronouncement that it IS the truth.
The reality is that human can make a judgment on what is true and what is false. Through repeatedly sensing their surroundings or reality, they can come to recognize that the existence of realities such as the moon or mountains are conclusive and definite and that they are not illusions. Any objective and serious study or thought must acknowledge the undeniable fact that absolute realities DO exist. If these realities were merely illusions that emanated from his imagination, then the human being, who has full control over his imagination, can alter the shape and nature of such illusions as he pleases. However, these realities exist regardless of his or anyone else’s imagination.
This means that the existence of any reality does not depend upon the person’s imagination and is not a relative issue like the subject of one’s imagination. With that in mind, reaching the truth must be the sole motive behind any study or research whether in university or the masajid. However the normative/ non-normative approaches is not interested in establishing what is true or false, because it’s method stipulates that value judgments are always subjective regardless of where it comes from. They view moral judgments in the Qur’an (which says drinking, zina, free-mixing is bad/evil) as things that cannot be objectively shown to be true or false. This is because they are not concerned with studying and validating the claims which the Qur’an makes in order to establish its truthfulness.
The Qur’an itself produces many challenges to the people as a litmus test for evaluating whether the Qur’an is word of the Creator or not. It also expresses to us the Islamic method of thinking by teaching the Muslims to view reality in absolute terms and not relative terms. Allah says about the Qur’an:
“If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our messenger, then produce one chapter like it. Call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful” (2:23)
Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions (4:82)
These are absolute positions of Either it is OR it is not.
Either the belief in Allah, His messengers, His angels, the Day of Judgment, His books, and Qadr is true OR it is false and there is no God, no such thing as messengers that were sent and there is no Day of Judgment. Therefore, the truth is what matches with the reality, and because the reality is the same for everyone, then this connection is absolute and not relative. The issue of whether Allah exists or whether the Qur’an is from Allah is not relative because either Allah exists or He does not and either Qur’an is from Allah or it is not. No one can claim that Allah exists and does not exist at the same time on the basis that some people deny His existence and others acknowledge it. Similarly it is irrational to study Islam and refrain from making judgment whether the Qur’an is the word of Allah or not. Saying that there exists a force called gravity, which pushes matter to the center of the earth, is correct and absolute because the reality proved its existence millions of times, and everyone observes the same phenomenon continuously and without exception. Thus, the existence of truth is a conclusive issue that every human being realizes.
Such sociological approaches to studying religion do not seek to establish whether something is true or not since the concept of truth and falsehood are absolute positions that the sociological method is not interested in establishing thus it is a flawed method for studying Islam and diverts itself into discussion that results in faulty conclusions.
Claim: Islamic jurisprudence was influenced by Roman law when the Muslims expanded their territory in the Byzantine Empire. She claimed governmental functions such as the jizya system was adopted from the Romans.
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This claim is erroneous and without any foundation. In class, the prof claimed that when the Muslims established as part of the Islamic state in Roman Territory in Sham (Palestine, Jordan. Syria, Lebanon), the system of governors the jizya tax system and other aspects of Roman jurisprudence was one of the main sources of Islamic Shariah, and that some of the Islamic ahkam were taken from Romanic legislation. They claimed as evidence for their view of the claim that in the days of the Islamic conquests, schools of Roman law existed in the Wilayat of Sham in Qaysariyyah on the coasts of Palestine, and Beirut. In that area, there were also courts that proceeded, in their system and rules according to Roman law. These courts continued to run for sometime after the Islamic conquests, indicating that Muslims had approved and adopted them and proceeded according to Roman law and the Roman system. They supported this viewpoint with various assumptions. For example, they claimed it was natural for a nomadic people like the Muslims to consider what should they do when they conquered an urbanized country such as the Sham region which had been under Roman rule, and what they should rule with. Consequently they borrowed Roman law. Then they drew up a comparison between certain aspects of Islamic law and certain aspects of Roman law, to demonstrate the similarity between the two.
It is maintained that the Islamic law took rules from the Talmud, and these rules had been adopted by the Talmud from Roman jurisprudence. They claimed Islamic jurisprudence took Roman jurisprudence directly from the schools and courts in Sham, and indirectly via the Talmud which took it from the Romans. The claims made by the Orientalists are wrong for a number of reasons:
First: No one reported about the Muslims, neither the “academics” or the others,, that any Muslim, whether a jurist (faqeeh) or not, has ever pointed to the Roman jurisprudence or law, neither by way of criticism or support or quotation; and no body mentioned it, whether little or much. This indicated that Roman law was not a subject of discussion or study. Some Muslims translated works of Greek philosophy, but no Roman book or body of jurisprudence was ever translated. This strengthens the case that these books and laws were abolished from the country when conquered by the Muslim armies.
Second: At the time when they claimed there were schools of Roman jurisprudence
and courts which made decisions according to Roman law in the Wilayat of Sham, this province was full of mujtahidin from the ‘Ulema, judges and rulers. It is natural that any claimed Roman influence would have been noticed in those fuqahaa (jurists). The reality is that there is no sign of any Roman influence in the fiqh of these fuqahaa, nor any mention of it. Their jurisprudence and ahkam were based on the Kitab, Sunnah and the Ijma’a of the Sahabah.
One of the most famous of those mujtahidin was al-Awza’i. He lived in Beirut, the site of the largest Roman schools in the Sham as alleged by the Orientalists. He lived his entire life in Beriut. His opinions have been recorded in many recognized books of fiqh. For example, in volume VII of ash-Shafi’i's ‘al-Umm’, there are numerous ahkam of al-Awza’i. It can be seen , from reading the texts of al-Awza’i, they were far from the Roman law. The mazhab of al-Awza’i, as noticed from his fiqh and his reports, is the mazhab of the Ahl ul-Hadith. He relied upon hadith more than he relied upon ra’i. The example of al-Awza’i can be applied to other fuqahaa (jurists). If there were any influence, it would have been noticed in those fuqahaa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahman_al-Awza'i
Claim:
Differences of interpretation exist with regard to the wearing of the Khimaar** for the Muslim woman, so it is not obligatory to cover. The video entitled “Great religions: Islam” mentioned that wearing of the Hijab evolved from Arab customs and practices and was incorporated into Islam.
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The most important aspect of this subject is to discuss the topic upon the correct basis. The discussion is not based on the whether or whether not the Khimaar is a matter of “personal choice.” It should also not be based on whether or whether not the wearing of the it brings benefits such as modesty and acts as a deterrent from the opposite sex or to protect ones chastity. The correct basis for discussion is based on whether or not it is a command of Allah’tala and whether it is stipulated in Shari’ah texts or not.
For any opinion to be a valid Islamic opinion it must be based on a daleel (evidence) or a semblance of a daleel (Shubhat Daleel) that is derived by the Mujtahid (a Muslim jurist who is qualified to derive ruling from the Islamic sources) With this in mind, this is the only valid discussion that can be considered and taken seriously and only the strongest daleel is adopted. So when the professor of religious studies or anybody else wants to dispute an understanding of a text in the Qur’an or the ahadith such as the khimaar, Muslims cannot acknowledge that understanding unless evidence is provide based on a daleel and not upon one’s own mind. Allah’tala says :
59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those of you who are in authority. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.)
Notice that it says “…if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day.” Clearly, the HUMA 2815 course does not take any of these factors into consideration.
The claim made in the video Great Religions: Islam is that wearing of the khimaar is a practice came from pre-islalmic Arab custom or that Muslim women adopted it as the expansion of Islam State ensued. During Islam’s interaction with other peoples and nations, the video hints that Muslims continued to adopt and integrate their code of dress from the non-Islamic cultures, the hijab and jilbab being one of them. This claim is totally erroneous and should be rejected in the firmest terms. The women of pre-Islamic times (jahaliyya) used to wear a style of fashin where “ …the upper part of the woman’s tunic had a wide opening in the front, and her breasts were left bare.” Archeologists have discovered visual evidence which survived
in the form of stone carvings which shows, “The earliest evidence of Arab clothing from the first and second millennia B.C.E. shows that scant clothing was worn with a variety of headdresses. Men and women wore almost identical clothing in the early Islamic era of the seventh century and the time of jahiliyya (pre-Islamic era)” (http://www.answers.com/topic/clothing)
Imam Abu Abdullah Qurtubi says “Women in those days used to cover their heads with the khimar, throwing its ends upon their backs. This left the neck and the upper part of the chest bare, along with the ears, in the manner of the Christians. Then Allah commanded them to cover those parts with the khimar.”
Imam Abu’l-Fida ibn Kathir says, “‘Draw their khumur to cover their bosoms’ means that they should wear the khimar in such a way that they cover their chests so that they will be different from the women of the jahiliyyah who did not do that but would pass in front of men with their chests uncovered and with their necks, forelocks, hair and earrings uncovered.”
So how can the claim that Muslim women adopted their clothing from Arab customs when they went from scant, flimsy clothing to wearing loose fitting garments covering the head and the body?
Allah (subhanahu wa ta’aala) has legislated what is Halal and what is Haram, and He (subhanahu wa ta’aala) has legislated that the covering of the Muslim woman is Fard (obligatory).
”And let them draw their khimar (head scarves) over their juyub (necks and bosoms)” [TMQ An-Nur: 31].
And He (subhanahu wa ta’aala) said:
”O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloak (jilbaabs) all over their bodies.” [ Al-Ahzab: 59].
There are also many references in the Ahadith:
Abu Dawood narrates on the authority of ‘Aishah (ra), that Asmaa bint Abi Bakr entered the quarters of Allah’s Messenger wearing thin clothes. The Messenger _ turned his face away and said: “O Asmaa, if the woman reaches puberty, it is not allowed to be seen from her except this and this, and he pointed to his face and hands”.
Abu Dawood narrates on the authority of Qatada that the Prophet _ said: “When a young lady begins to menstruate, it is not correct that anything should be seen of her except her face and hands excluding the wrist.”
Al-Bayhaqi narrates on the authority of Asma’ bint ‘Umays that she said: “The Messenger of Allah entered the house of ‘Aisha bint Abu Bakr while her sister, Asmaa bint Abu Bakr, was with her. She was wearing a Shammi (Syrian) dress with wide sleeves. When the Messenger of Allah _ saw her he got up and went out.” ‘Aisha said: “leave the room for the Messenger of Allah has seen something he does not like.” So she withdrew. Then the Messenger of Allah _ entered and ‘Aisha (ra) inquired as to why he stood to leave? He _ said: “Did you not see what she was wearing? It is not permitted for anything to be seen of a Muslim woman except this and this.” He took his sleeves and covered the upper part of his hands until nothing could be seen of his hands except his fingers. Then he lifted his hands to his temples until only the face could be seen.”
It is clear from these texts that the Islamic dress is based upon the message that Muhammad (sualAllahu alayhi wasalam) brought from Allah (subhana wata’ala). So the only reason for covering is the fact that Allah (subhana wata’ala) commanded it of the Muslim woman and in fulfilling the obligation she obeys Him (subhana wata’ala) and gains His pleasure and reward in the hereafter. Adopting any other, Western inspired, reasoning for wearing the Khimar is unacceptable and lends support to the ‘Attack on the Veil’, by so called experts on Islam.
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**Imam Abu’l-Fida ibn Kathir: “Khumur is the plural of khimar which means something that covers, and is what is used to cover the head. This is what is known among the people as a khimar.”
The dictionary of classical Arabic, Aqrab al-Mawarid: “[The word khimar refers to] all such pieces of cloth which are used to cover the head. It is a piece of cloth which is used by a woman to cover her head.”
Shaykh Muhammad Nasiruddin Albani: “The word khimaar linguistically means only a head covering. Whenever it is mentioned in general terms, this is what is intended
This is a few of the many errant ideas and claims that I have heard. As we know, Islam is the deen of Haqq and the haqq is clear from baatil. Any Muslims who is taking this course or has taken this course must know that Islam cannot be intellectually defeated, and is encouraged to post anything strange they have heard from this class in order to clarify our understanding and not fall into the traps of the orientalists. I am hoping inshallah this will be a discussion and we can learn from each other inshallah. Please point out any mistakes. Suggestion and comments are also welcome.
about 2 months ago
Asalam Alaykum,
Jazakallah khayran for writing about this course as i was considering taking this course this coming year but now i know that it’s a very bad idea now. Jazakallah khayaran for saving me time and money brother. May SWT Allah reward you for your concerns about the muslim ummah.
about 2 months ago
Personally I really enjoy this type of academic discourse. The Orientalist basis (whose original hostility supposedly aimed to take an opposing stance to anything orthodox) is interesting to take on in an intellectual battle and forces one to learn more about their Deen and be better equipped.
Nouman Ali Khan spoke recently about the importance of the community being well-versed to take on such intellectual critique and Dr. Reda Bedeir entertained our class with stories of being a very orthodox instructor in this University environment and “stickin it to the man”.
Unfortunately however I think most students who take these courses are terribly versed in Islam and very lazy/apathetic to religion and education already, so pseudo-education to something as intellectually rich as Islam just increases them in confusion, heedlessness and more apathy.
about 2 months ago
Walikum Asalam
Sr Sadaf, I agree with br Sabour, I am in no way recommending not to take this course. In fact, after taking it, it forced me to look into the issue more deeply myself. As you know, Islam is the only deen that can not only hold its ground in intellectual debate but also invite the athiest, agnostic, Christain, jew etc to bring there proofs if they are truthful. Verses such as show how they need to prove their ‘accusations’ :
21.24] Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! most of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.
[27.64] Or, Who originates the creation, then reproduces it and Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth. Is there a god With Allah? Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful
So I suggest that if you are able to a positive representative and challenge the incorrect points in class and tutorial or research the points you hear in class, you would be an asset to the other Muslims and non-muslims who may not know any better.
about 2 months ago
MashAllah, may Allah reward you with Jannatul Ferdous ameen.
about 2 months ago
I disagree with this article. I am currently taking this course and Dr. Marta had NEVER “claimed” what this article speaks.
She never said any of the many things mentioned in this article. I believe, you muslims are creating fitnah. Obviously, things like:
“Other baseless accusations they have made is :
•Hadith is wholly unreliable
•The authenticity of the Quranic Text is doubtful
•The Satanic verses : Muhammad (sualAllahu alayhi wasalam) recited a verse that told the Quraysh to worship the daughters of Allah to gain converts to Islam and then changed his mind (Salman Rushdie has written a book with this title)
•Putting doubt into the character and integrity of the Prophet when he had the capital punishment applied to the tribe of Bani Qurayza for treason.”
That waas not even mentioned in this course! Where are these claims coming from?!
Furthermore, there was nothing regarding sun cult at all! It was about Pre-Islamic rituals.
I would love to read more and argue more, but this is just sad, really sad.
And regarding shai’tanic verses, even scholars that are not in west, but in islamic countires have talked about it.
This article is twisting the “truth” that it claims. and yes I am Muslim alhamdulilah. But, when I read material like this, it is absurd.
Edit: Chill out, snipped some content. See blog rules #6 and 7
-Sabour Al-Kandari
about 2 months ago
Salaamualaikum Individual!
Welcome to the blog. We’re very open to criticism and discussion here (the category tagged is “Discourse”) so you’re more than welcome to make all the counter points you’d like so we can grow in understanding.
However, for your sake you should know that verbal abuse does nothing to support your argument, takes away from an adult conversation and is against the blog rules. This is all I got from your post:
“This sucks, you guys suck, none of it happened, this sucks – I would argue but this sucks”.
You do have one valid point buried in there that you haven’t witnessed any of this, and I’ll take your word for it.
But I do find it extremely strange that you haven’t even heard of any of these claims but allude to the satanic verses and have talked about pre-Islamic rituals in class without entertaining Orientalist points of view. I mean, I’ve heard every single one of these claims in Orientalists’ work and it’s pretty common knowledge that secular universities base a lot of their Islamic curriculum on Orientalists.
It’s also common-knowledge that the content of courses may change over time as Imran said (there is a date disclaimer in the article) – but I’ll reserve my doubts about that until I hear more testimony. It is possible that the increase in mainstream Muslim customers – err I mean students, forces the courses to tame down on their content.
At the end of the day though, I’m sure you’ll agree that a person will definitely hear Orientalist and heretical ideas (according to Ahl Al Sunnah Wal Jama’ah) in these courses, so one shouldn’t walk in there brain-dead thinking they are getting “authentic” knowledge when most Muslim academia in the world would beg to differ – which is the moral of the story.
about 2 months ago
MashAllah,since when did a non-muslim think it ok to teach Islam? I think I wouldnt bother going to those classes as it may be a waste of a lot of time,instead I’d like to spend it in a real ‘ilm course.But ofcourse if one feels they can benefit the class as said by similarly creating an opposing current of ideas to those produced by the orientalist profs. and getting class discussions going- knocking falsehood down in the process…. overall the good may outweigh the bad.
Its sad though because I’d already heard more than half of these claims before. Reguritation on full mode.
However,how does one separate between acknowldeging the fact that Islam was practised since Prophet Ibrahim(AS) all the way to the Prophet Muhammed’s (Salal Allahu ‘alaihy wasalam) time and the fact that other groups/civilizations having forgotten them and/or corrupted them?For example: the Arabs pre-Islam, used to circumambulate but their rituals were corrupted,yet this does not mean that Islam copied from them,rather,they had remnants left of what was practised since Prophet Ibrahim(AS) time.
Great article. JazakAllah Khair.
about 2 months ago
Jzk
I’ll get back to the points made very soon.
Anybody else who wishes to comment I remind them and my self to keep the discussion calm and ordered.
about 2 months ago
Asalamu alykum.
Br/Sis, These are observations I made during side conversations, discussions, and other things which were “in between the lines” within the course. If you notice, I never recommended ‘boycotting’ the class, since I do not believe that these discussions should be avoided or ignored, but rather Muslims should start to engage with the readings and learn how to question the type of things they may have heard in class instead of doing whatever it takes to get an A in the course (even if it means arguing FOR unislamic concepts on their paper!)
This was 2 years ago therefore perhaps things have changed somewhat from now when you are taking it now. However everything I have mentioned was definitely alluded to/ entertained as a possibility, in my personal opinion, which you are wholly entitled to disagree/ agree with.
about 2 months ago
Salaams,
Jazakallah brother for posting this article, as I too was thinking about taking this course in the summer (if it was offered) but now that I’ve heard a bit about, I think I’d be more comfortable to not take it and avoid any type of ‘misguidance’ if I may say. I would however recommend that AP HIST 2790 Islamic Civilization isn’t actually that bad – and it’s taught by Professor Abdullah also, who Mashallah I must say is a very good prof. Just a comment if anyone’s interested lol. Jazaks again for the article :)
about 2 months ago
Walaikum salaam,
Hey it’s your choice. I’ve taken HIST 2790 and actually the post I have on this blog about Islam and scientific history was my final essay for that course.
When I took it last year it was heavily based on the work of William Montgomery Watt who is probably the tamest of the Orientalists. He’s actually attacked other critics of Islam and defended the Prophet (sualAllahu alayhi wasalam) on a number of occasions. My pointing this out is in no way endorsement of his work, but just for the sake of perspective.
At the end of the day though, the idea remains the same about staying on your toes and thinking critically about what’s being said – which is what we should be doing for everything right?
about 2 months ago
I think you ppl are lucky in the sense you have these sort of interesting courses (and a Muslim teaches it!) . Was HIST 2790 fair in its portrayal of islamic science,history etc.?
about 2 months ago
Brother Ahlam,
I am currently taking HIST 2790 and I’d say it’s pretty fair in portraying Islamic history – of the civilization that is. Personally speaking I do not know much about the history if Islamic civilization but there are many things still in the course that I do familiarize myself with (what we learned in Madressa alhumdulillah). But honestly there have been only a few lectures on the time period from the Prophet’s (SAW) time and before; most of the material is based on events after the Prophet’s time. But again, we’ve only been through half of the course so far . . . so I’d suggest for more insight to ask brother Sabour since he’s already taken it. =)
about 2 months ago
*Sister Ahlam lol
It’s hard to directly recommend the course, it really depends on the person. I’ll answer a few questions:
Were the Profs/TA’s cool? Yes
Did I learn? Yes
Orientalist/Heretical elements? Yes, particularly when dealing with the issue of succession and the fitnah. One MUST do their own research to get a clearer picture of the position of Ahl Al’Sunnah and the evidence for it. I recommend Waleed Basyouni’s History of the Sects and Kamal el-Mekki’s the Fitnah to start.
Post-Salaf history? Enjoyed it more, didn’t have my guns drawn for it since misinformation wouldn’t affect a person’s understanding of the Deen.
Would I take it again as my elective? Definitely.
My biggest issue with these classes is less with courses/profs (because I know what to expect) and more with the students’ laziness and lack of critical thinking. I mean, in this course students were asking the Profs/TA’s questions of FIQH!
about 2 months ago
Jazakum Allahu Khairan both for the responses. (sister saayma,bless you, you thought I was a brother:) )
Questions on Fiqh? au’thobillah.
They need help. Bottom line, ppl need to be active in their Islamic education when taking these courses!
(Kamal-el-Mekki, is the shaykh!)
about 2 months ago
:O I’m so sorry! :$ Sooo embarassinggg! Sister Ahlam I will remember that next time inshallah :$ So sos os sorry for the confusion . . . :(
about 2 months ago
lol jazaks for the correction. Sorry again sister ! :$
Oh but brother Sabour the last bit you mentioned reminded me of an incident last term lol – we were talking about how different groups interperted the Qur’an literally or allegorically, and it so happened that one brother raised an objection – by taking out his Qur’an and reading a verse, adding “Oh but this says this. Shouldn’t this be allegorically understood?” lol everyone was like :| Fun times still.
And yes, I soo agree with you (even though I’ve only been through half of the course) that I’d definitely take this course again (right now too its only my elective) – though only if Prof Abdullah was teaching it :)
about 2 months ago
S.a. brothers and sisters!! :)
I think you all made some very excellent and interesting points, however I think that as Muslims we shouldnt see takign this course as a “waste” of time or money, if you learn one thing and put it into action becauseo f this course your time and money will be well spent. I’m currently enrolled in this course and I enjoy it very much, although second semester is becoming more interesting. I urge other Muslims to take this course esp. because you get to see diff. viewpoints and if for ex. someone says something wrong then you can correct them and speak up.
Although Marta has said things which i dont agree with, she is a very nice individual and we can learn from non muslims and have friendly dialogues with one another. Also, there are many things i dont agree with that are mentioned on Friday khutbas, but i still come to Jumah, or for ex i would still go to masjid regardless of the person speaking! We can always learn from one another, and this is a blessing of Allah s.w.t. so please don’t be discouraged from this course, if anyone wants, i can give them notes/slides etc, for them to get a jist of what its about. Have a great day everyone!
about 2 months ago
This was a very thought provoking read. From a critical stand point I do feel the writer brings up a few strong points; but generally I find very little validity and logic at times in his argument based on his justifications. In his introduction he begins poorly with a cheap tactic; character assassination. He questions the legitimate portrayal of Islam within the course – this on its own is a reasonable subject matter to explore – but he juxtaposes this topic with an alleged fact that two of the prof’s directing the course are non-Muslim. Thus, he implicitly implies their lack of understanding of Islam based on assumed religious bias (or lack thereof?).
He makes claims of “prejudice scholars” who paint Islam in a negative light with connotations of power, wealth and sex. This is undoubtedly an unfortunate fact of history and a mark of Orientalism at its finest. If we look back at the course, we did manage to tip-toe around the Western worlds understanding of Islam and how that evolved over time. The historiographical approach used in 2815 was by no means sympathetic to the past injustices of colonial regimes and their oppressive curriculums; in fact the course denounced such paradigms. Yet we still learned about it. Why? Because as morally reprehensible as it was it was still an accurate occurrence of what happened and how Islam WAS viewed. The writer says that those blatant corrupt views of Islam have in some way permeated modern liberal paradigms of education. I scoffed at this concept; not because there may be truth to the statement but because he doesn’t suggest any specifics to the disease he feels is spreading like a “cancer” through the minds of Muslims; but he did manage to articulate them as “subtle.”
The writer gets deeper with the concepts of normative vs. non-normative approaches; probably the foundation of this course and many other religious studies courses. (Here is a worthwhile area one can critique). I can understand his thought process as he tries to discredit the scholarly approach however, in my opinion he ends up in a frustrated limited space. He does so by arguing against non-normative approaches while assuming a rigid and non-halting normative perspective. And to do so you end up in a subjective sphere where the course must adapt and conform to the adorned normative view point. Logically this is completely absurd; York University is a place of secularity. Take it a step further; the humanities department – in particular religious studies is a discipline which can be characterised as “outsider,” outsiders who look into practices, religions and even traditions. To allow a university or should I say a modern day Multiversity to indoctrinate students with religious beliefs and to claim ultimate truth in Islam over all other religions taught within the very same institution would be unjust (not in a normative Muslim mindset) but in a secular libertarian environment – the very environment York is situated in. Such a normative form of education is crucial and must be cultivated within Mudrasa’s appropriately.
The author wants the course to establish truth and falsehood within this course; again I feel that such normative necessities would be unnecessary. A person’s spirituality and level of belief should extend farther than a second year course on Islam; therefore seeking such frivolous approval in 2815 is a waste of time. Any historical facts which conflict with ones religious facts are merely a test of that individuals virtue and strength; possibly even struggle (Jihad) for belief.
Lastly, I feel this course is not intended to strengthen or weaken the resolve of Muslims. It is put simply an abstemious look into our faith devoid of judgement and the need to adopt its truths; while still observing the traditions of the Muslim Umah from origin until present. Therefore, this course can be seen to have been designed with the non-Muslim in mind; and we Muslims have the added difficulty of restraining our normative dogma.
I hope that Muslims reading the above article do not consume the ideas presented without criticism… 2815 is a valuable course although flawed; I still feel it is worth while.
- Thanx.
about 2 months ago
Salaamualaikum Junaid,
I thank you for keeping the discussion civil and academic, this is a lot more fun. =)
I don’t think pointing out the unMuslimness (no that’s not a word) is used in such a way to imply anything really. Here it is again:
There’s no real conclusion derived from that statement, it’s merely stated and can provide whatever perspective the reader makes of it (if any). I think you’re reading into it an ad hominem fallacy that isn’t there.
Secondly, I don’t think Imran’s point was to get the course to adopt a normative attitude in a secular University, but rather to argue against the paradigm treating that philosophy as the most academic/useful, particularly for a Muslim. Essentially, the point is what does a pluralistic view of contradictory ideas do for a person who’s seeking truth and defining their life by it? It’s a really subtle difference, but I don’t think you’ve noticed it and made a bit of a straw-man fallacy.
Again, Imran has repeatedly said he doesn’t discourage people from taking the course. Rather he’s initiating the dialogue of pointing out that there will be ideas presented that don’t fit into the mainstream Muslim paradigm, so be prepared to think!
You said:
Bingo! =D}
about 2 months ago
Assalam-U-Alaikum,
I am also taking this course currently and I love it. I think that everyone should be allowed to have their own opinion and this is what this course teaches, it doesn’t teach us about somethings mentioned in previous comments. In fact, I think that for non-Muslims it allows them to gain a deeper insight into what the Islamic religion is about and what being a Muslim entails. For Muslims, it allows them to maybe strengthen their Iman and maybe even teach them things they never knew before. I know that this course has taught me things I never expected to learn from anything else in my life. I think that this course is a blessing from Allah (S.W.T) and we should all try to learn a lesson or two from it because nobody is perfect and we never will be, except for the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W).
about 1 month ago
Sabour & Imran – I love you 2 for the sake of Allah! :-)
about 1 month ago
May He for Whose sake you love me, love you!