The Blind Faith of Atheism – The Atheist Dialogues
Author: Imran Hasan
Intro Series
A combination of the remaining parts of his series on atheism
Islamic Awareness Week is always a wonderful opportunity for Muslims to engage with different points of view and belief systems. Sometimes it can be challenging when we meet people that only know about Muslims and Islam through CNN, Fox News, or the ticking time bomb terrorist in “24.” On the bright side, there are some genuine seekers of truth; sincere people who are not affected by the propaganda war unleashed by the media. I have met many types of people during IAW; all the way from fervent Bible-loving Christians, Mystical Hindus, Relativist “maybe this is all an imagination, maybe you don’t really exist” Philosophers, to my favorite, the secular, humanist atheist/agnostics. They are my favorite because many (not all) believe that this is most scientific, rational, reasonable belief. Little do they know the many “leaps of faith” involved in the dogma of Atheism.
Often Atheists will accuse theists of worshiping the “God of the Gaps.” This refers to the idea of when “creationist(s) eagerly seek a gap in present-day knowledge or understanding… (and) if an apparent gap is found, it is assumed that God, by default must fill it in.” For example, Dawkins, a famous Atheist biologist here is saying that when theists view something complex in the universe that is unexplained by science, they immediately explain it away by using God as the reason. I would argue that this is not very dissimilar to what I would find out later; which is that Atheists worship “the Holy Cow of science.” If they don’t know the answer somehow science, by default “must fill it in.”
While eagerly waiting and hoping to engage and discuss Islam, I was fortunate to talk to a seemingly rational, intelligent student. After exchanging a few pleasantries I proceeded to ask whether he believes in a God. Proudly, he responded in the negative and affirmed that he is indeed an Atheist which meant the belief that a Creator does NOT exist. This was an ample opportunity see upon which basis does Mr. Atheist(from here on is what he will be referred to as) believe what he believes and why.
The most obvious question was to talk to Mr. Atheist about how the universe came into existence. Thus I presented him 3 possible choices:
1) The universe always existed thus there no need for a Creator
2) The universe started to exist out of pure chance
3) The universe began to exist due the necessity of the existence of the Creator
The universe always existed thus there no need for a Creator
The belief in the steady state theory has been disproved scientifically (see Big bang theory –no not the TV series) and more importantly can be disproved rationally. Believing that the universe ALWAYS existed is believing that the universe has an infinite set of past events. What does that mean? It means that if we go back in time, it is infinitely long and that there was no beginning in time and space thus there is no need for a Creator to set creation in motion. As Burtrand Russell, a British philosopher once said: “I should say that the universe is just there, and that is all.” However, I feel that is a cop out and if I may dare say so: blind faith.
Can the concept of an infinite set of past events exist in the real world?
Think of the example of getting in line to borrow a book from Scott Library, say the Qur’an.
The dialogue went as follows (true story):
Me: If there were 4 people in front of you in line, would you ever check out the book?
Mr. Atheist: Well of course
Me: If there were 400 people in front of you in line, would you ever check out the book?
Mr. Atheist: (after some thought) Yea..
Me: How about 4 million?
Mr. Atheist: Eventually……
Me: If there was an infinite number of people in front you, would you ever check out the book?!!
Other examples could be having an infinite chain of dominoes, would anything ever move if there wasn’t a first cause? Thus we know that the universe is limited, it had a beginning at some point and that a chain of events did occur where time, matter and space had an origin thus it began to exist, not always there. To exemplify the absurdity of this idea, it is akin to a person, for example entering Scott Religious Center, seeing the mats in place, Popeye’s boxes in the corner of the sister section behind the dividers which are in the middle and conclude: “It’s just there!” Wa la haula wa la Quwatu illa billah.
Mr. Atheist got the point but needed more convincing. Indeed, this puts the Atheist in an uneasy position since the ‘blind faith’ of an infinity existing universe is no longer applicable and even irrational. As Eminent British Physicist David Hilbert, one of this century’s greatest mathematicians has written, “The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite…is solely that of an idea…”
The universe started to exist out of pure chance
How about Chance? What are the possibilities that the universe that we live in just happened to exist and function in a harmonious interdependent system due to pure chance? I don’t think Mr. Atheist was too excited about using this argument but I took the initiative and brought it up for him. Let’s take a quick look at some of the numbers:
According to the big scientists that Atheist puts their tawakul (reliance) on, Roger Penrose of Oxford University has calculated that the odds of the Big Bang’s low entropy condition existing by chance are on the order of one out of 1010. Physicist P. C. W. Davies has calculated that a change in the strength of gravity or of the atomic weak force by only one part in 10100 would have prevented a life permitting universe.
To put it in tangible perspective, Penrose says: “In order to produce a universe resembling the one in which we live, the Creator would have to aim for an absurdly tiny volume of the phase space of possible universes.” And what is the volume of this phrase space? The volume of the phase space would be 1/10 to the power of X? What is X? X is 10 to the power of 123. This is smaller than the ratio of a Proton! In other words, it is the precision that would be required to hit an individual proton if the entire universe were a dartboard!
The atheist may say, “Well, there is still a chance!” Would he say the same thing if I said that last week I saw a pink Elephant wearing a Yorku T-shirt, giving out Islamic Awareness week pamphlets? “Well, there still is a chance!” Rubbish, more specifically, ‘blind faith’ in the unseen and unreasonable.
The universe began to exist due the necessity of the existence of the Creator
So, we are nearing the end of our journey. The universe could not have forever existed nor could it have come out of pure chance. What options are left? The only one I can think of is that it was caused by a Creator. As defined in the beginning, by Creator what is meant is the existence of an unlimited, independent, immaterial entity from which time, space and matter was caused to exist. Since we have already established that universe began to exist which was not out of pure chance, it must have had a cause. The principal of cause and effect is one of the foundational truths of our reality. Science, math’s, technology, industry, development, cosmology, and the mind all depend on the idea that things within our sensed reality must have a cause. The options we have here are either: there is an interdependent set of causes that infinitely depend on each other or there exists an uncaused cause that caused time and space to exist. The first cannot be true since causes require a cause outside of itself and it must depend on something other than itself to exist. For example, a tree requires other than itself to exist such as the sun, water and soil.
So we are left with one last option which is that of an uncaused cause that brought things into existence. Since it caused the existence of time and space which are all limited, dependent and weak therefore these very attributes cannot apply to the source that cause it in the first place. To say so would fall into many contradictions and we would go back to where we began with the whole issue of the infinity and how it does not exist in our sensed reality. Thus this cause, by necessity, must be unlimited since it is the causer of limitations; independent since it is causer of dependency; and eternal since it is causer of the finite.
Other emotional arguments from the Atheist
Well, who caused God?
This in itself is an irrational question. It is flawed in many ways since it is asking in other word’s what caused the uncaused cause which has been proven to definitely exist. A mouth-full, but think about it. That is like asking “What the gender of the twins that John gave birth to?” It is a non-sensical question since it asking for a cause of something that is uncaused. Why is it uncaused? As stated earlier, an inifinite chain of causes does not exist! Other Mr. Atheists may ask, “Well that’s double-standards! You said everything has to have a cause!”
I would respond by saying, “If you heard me carefully, I never said everything has to have a cause, rather I said whatever begins to exist has to have a cause. The Creator never began to exist, and it is incomprehensible to the limited mind to understand the essence of how this Creator can exist without a cause, all we can know is that it exists and we are unable to go beyond that conclusion. An example is if you hear a loud knock on the door. We can only know that something that exists caused the sound and we are unable to go beyond that conclusion. Cause and effect is only understandable in the material world and incomprehensible when applied to the immaterial, unlimited and independent. Thus if what they are referring to is a Creator who was created, then it is no longer a Creator!
Religion causes war, therefore God doesn’t exist!
Wars are caused in any natural interaction between human beings due to conflict over resources, aggression, tribalism/ nationalism etc. The former Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Oxford, he writes, “It is very difficult to think of any organized human activity that could not be corrupted…The lesson is that anti-religious corruptions and religious corruptions are both possible. There is no magic system or belief, not even belief in liberal democracy, which can be guaranteed to prevent it.”
Can anyone doubt the unprecedented scale of loss of life under the relatively short history of non-religious, secular ideologies like Communism, Secular Democracy/Capitalism? This is only a part of the list. (Contact me if you want the rest!)
60,000,000–72,000,000 – World War II (1939–1945), (see World War II casualties)[35][36]
* 20,000,000–70,000,000 – World War I (1914–1918) (see World War I casualties) note that the larger number includes Spanish flu deaths
* 20,000,000 – Taiping Rebellion (China, 1851–1864) (see Dungan revolt)[42]
* 20,000,000 – Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945)[43]
* 10,000,000 – Warring States Era (China, 475 BC–221 BC)
* 5,000,000–9,000,000 – Russian Civil War and Foreign Intervention (1917–1921)
* 3,800,000 – 5,400,000 – Second Congo War (1998–2007)
* 3,500,000–6,000,000 – Napoleonic Wars (1804–1815)
* 3,000,000–11,500,000 – Thirty Years’ War (1618–1648)[52]
* 3,000,000–7,000,000 – Yellow Turban Rebellion (China, 184–205)
* 2,500,000–3,500,000 – Korean War (1950–1953)
* 2,300,000–3,800,000 – Vietnam War (entire war 1945–1975)
o 300,000–1,300,000 – First Indochina War (1945–1954)
o 100,000–300,000 – Vietnamese Civil War (1954–1960)
o 1,750,000–2,100,000 – American phase (1960–1973)
o 170,000 – Final phase (1973–1975)
* 300,000–3,000,000[57] – Bangladesh Liberation War
* 1,500,000–2,000,000 – Afghan Civil War (1979 -)
o 1,000,000–1,500,000 Soviet intervention (1979–1989)
* 1,300,000–6,100,000 – Chinese Civil War (1928–1949) note that this figure excludes World War II casualties
o 1,000,000–3,000,000 after World War II
* 1,000,000–2,000,000 – Mexican Revolution (1910–1920)[58]
* 1,000,000 – Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988)[59]
* 1,000,000 – Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598)[60]
* 1,000,000 – Second Sudanese Civil War (1983–2005)
* 1,000,000 – Nigerian Civil War (1967–1970)
* 618,000[61] – 970,000 – American Civil War (including 350,000 from disease) (1861–1865)
* 900,000–1,000,000 – Mozambique Civil War (1976–1993)
* 868,000[62] – 1,400,000[63] – Seven Years’ War (1756-1763)
* 800,000 – 1,000,000 – Rwandan Civil War (1990-1994)
* 800,000 – Congo Civil War (1991–1997)
* 600,000 to 1,300,000 – First Jewish-Roman War (see List of Roman wars)
* 580,000 – Bar Kokhba’s revolt (132–135CE)
* 570,000 – Eritrean War of Independence (1961-1991)
* 550,000 – Somali Civil War (1988 – )
* 500,000 – 1,000,000 – Spanish Civil War (1936–1939)
* 500,000 – Angolan Civil War (1975–2002)
* 500,000 – Ugandan Civil War (1979–1986)
* 400,000–1,000,000 – War of the Triple Alliance in Paraguay (1864–1870)
* 400,000 – War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714)
Even then, it still doesn’t prove God doesn’t exist!
God is irrelevant therefore God doesn’t exist!
So is Ultimate Frisbee (sorry MSA guys) it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
There are so many religions therefore God doesn’t Exist!
Imagine you went back to small village back home to find your long lost grandfather. If there were 4 people claiming to be your grandfather, it doesn’t mean I don’t have one and he doesn’t exist! Multiplicity of choice does not prove non-existence.
There is Evil in the World therefore God cannot exist.
This is a classical anti-Christian argument since they have a conception of a ‘Good God’. The reasoning goes as follows:
1. A good God that is omnipotent exists
2. Evil exists
3. Therefore a good God that is omnipotent doesn’t exist
This requires an article in itself however I will touch on a few points inshaallah. It is actually an augment for the theist instead of the Atheist.
The first issue is the fallacy of arguing from ignorance. Just because you cannot see the ‘good’ that comes from what the Atheist terms ‘evil’ doesn’t mean that the good is not there.
Second, We cannot conclude without revelation from God, what type of characteristics that this God has. Thus the conception of a purely ‘Good God’ which loves you and does not punish is a Christo-centric conception of God. In the Qur’an, the book of the Muslims, which is a miraculous text (which requires another article in itself), we believe that God is All-Merciful and also severe in Punishment thus we don’t believe natural disasters and death to be ‘evil’ but rather a test from God.
Third, the Atheist has no foundation for universal moral objectivity. This is because universal objective morality can only be based on a conceptual anchor beyond human subjectivity which can only be God. The atheist believes that our morals evolve like our hands and toes if he is a believer in evolution. Consequently, since according to them we are all advanced animals with a common ancestor to creatures such as chimpanzees, then how we cannot say human can act ‘evil’, since we don’t accuse the animal kingdom of acting immorally. Rather we say it is part of the survival instinct. Thus the atheist cannot claim that this or that is objectively morally evil but rather killing or stealing is part of the evolutionary process. So to say “Why is there so much evil,” according to your very own principles there is no such thing as objective ‘evil’ in the first place!
Mr. Atheist was not as proud as he appeared in the beginning of our discussion. After proposing which one was the most reasonable to believe, I was disappointed to find out that his response was that science will figure it out one day. God of the Gaps I thought. His decision was that, ultimately, it had to be a reason other than the choices we talked about. Well, what were these “other” reasons, I inquired to Mr. Atheist. He said he didn’t know but it certainly isn’t ‘God.’ A little disappointed, I started to close the conversation, I had class soon. Mr. Atheist turned to me one last time and said, “Well, I never said I didn’t believe in a God, it just that I need more evidence.” Alhamdulilah, at least I could be satisfied that the Mr. Atheist that I approached that day, walked away a Mr. Agnostic and inshallah one day, a Mr. Muslim.
The Blind Faith of Atheism (Intro)
about 2 months ago - 10 comments
Author: Imran Hasan, a 4th year student majoring in Education Intro Series The reason why I will be writing a series of articles Insha’allah is to highlight a disturbing trend that I have noticed. A new “sect” from Atheism has emerged from the lurking shadows. More specifically it is called the “New Atheism.” The difference
about 1 month ago
The part on the change in the force of gravity raised an eyebrow, I got different numbers. These might be useful:
1) rate of expansion after big bang
“If the rate of expansion one second after the ‘Big Bang’ had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million (0,000000000000001%), the universe would have re-collapsed. The odds against a universe like ours emerging out of something like the Big Bang are enormous”. (Stephen Hawking, ‘A Brief History of Time: From the Big Bang to Black Holes’, Page 128).
14 0’s
2) gravity :
“If gravity (released by the Big Bang) had been stronger or weaker by even one part in ten thousand million million million million million million (0,00000000000000000000000000000000000001%) then life sustaining stars like the sun could not exist. This would most likely make life impossible.” (Brandon Carter, ‘New Physics’ Page 187).
37 0’s
about 1 month ago
MashAllah,thats a lot of writing and a long coversation.I can’t wait for the upcoming IAW in Feb at my uni. and I am hoping to catch some fish, InshaaAllah!.
Just yesterday I was listening to a lecture on Nociception- the perception of pain- and she mentioned how our bodies have an inbuilt ability to overcome or compensate for pain felt.
I thought ”Subhan Al Khaaliq” thinking to myself ”she must agree”. What she said next was ”We can say that perhaps evolution…” I sighed, looked down and started scribbling out of bewilderment. What I learned from these people is if you cant explain something,then they guess evolution has the answer.
So these sort of dialogues are important,to show them that their ideas about God may be the prevailing notion in the media and elsewhere,but that does not mean they are anywhere near the truth of the matter.
about 1 month ago
I forgot that I also wanted to mention a point on the existence of evil. If evil or ”bad” did not exist then we wouldn’t apreciate or *know* what good means. Plus, life would be boring without suffering a little, and the taste of yusr or ease is sweet and acknowledged after only having experienced ‘usr or hardship.
about 1 month ago
Mashallah! brother very beautifully arranged arguments, inevitably convincing as well. I wish all Muslims are armored with the knowledge of Islam and understanding of world, so this secular society and media would not create this cliche’ of anti-semitic Muslims.
Another stain we have on the name of Muslims is ‘AMSA@york’ who are doing this lecture in Vari hall from 6 to 9pm, this thursday dec 7, I think we should go and do these kind of rational debates or ask questions to them. This could be an opportunity to show them the outside world…….
who is going with me?
about 1 month ago
Mashallah brother Imran, you have read well on this subject and have provided some concise irrefutable evidences to extinguish the recycled firestorm that is stemming from the”New Atheists”!
You said: “I was disappointed to find out that his response was that science will figure it out one day. ”
Science can be flawed – didn’t science of the past civilizations teach the earth was flat? (according to observable data and unanimous evidence) which was them abrogated by ‘science of the present’ that now has discovered it is a globe!
Science will NEVER find out about the ’cause’ of the universe. However, it is is fully equipped to find out the processes that happen within it, read why I say so…
I have heard Atheists such Richard Dawkins and Peter Atkins et al make emphatic claims for ‘science’ being the be all and end all of ‘knowledge’. They think it is the pinnacle of knowledge but they are deluded. A lover gets deluded with his beloved!
The problem with the Atheist and Atheism is that they seem to be brainwashed into accepting that SCIENCE as a ‘methodology’ or ‘branch of knowledge’ is the only avenue to arrive at a sound conclusion, or ‘truth’.
Can science prove William Shakespeare existed? Or closer to home, Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, whose theory Atheists have whole-heartedly adopted as an article of faith, by which they claim to proof that a God, or Designer, does not exist? Scientific methodology (empiricism) cannot answer this, as it lies outside its scope and boundaries! The methodology of ‘knowing’ these people, who you do not see, cannot see, and never will see, can only be through the branch of knowledge called HISTORY. You will apply certain processes and principles, to arrive at a conclusion ,to determine whether they existed or not.
Similarly, ask somebody to proof do NUMBERS exist. Get them to use scientific empiricism as the sole methodology; you will give them mental shock waves. You do not see numbers, nor feel numbers, nor hear numbers, nor taste numbers nor smell them (they cannot be detected by our senses)! Numbers simply exist in our minds as abstract non-physical entities and literally nonsensical (i.e. senses cannot detect them, only understood in the mind) The branch of knowledge that can answer this, is called MATHEMATICS.
To cut this long story short, I bring to you two other branches of knowledge: PHILOSOPHY and THEOLOGY, The former can proof that there is a ‘Creator’, the latter can dig deeper and actually pinpoint and label WHO/WHAT the creator is, God!
To really deliver the knockout blow, ask Mr. Atheist if he lived before the era of Darwin’s ‘holy grail of evolution’ – which theory or ‘scientific process of the day’ would he have believed in, as the cause of our existence (or to be precise, the process that brought about our existence) ? Atheist always use a ‘process’ in reality to try to explain the cause, thus shooting themselves in the foot. They never answer what caused the process! For e.g. chance, coincidence, time, eternity and now evolution (micro and macro – not going to discuss, as it is way beyond scope of this topic) These are processes in reality or conjectured processes. The crux of it is, they do not follow rationality and simple logic – design implies designer… we can go on and on and on!
about 1 month ago
Hi, a brief answer to Richard Dawkins is available here, among other things
http://indianmuslimnotes.blogspot.com/2010/11/human-delusion.html